Ruhama – “Every woman who sells sex deserves an opportunity to make a change"
To reflect on how services respond to women’s processes of leaving the sex industry, we spoke to Trish O’Brien, Education and Development Officer at Ruhama, and a woman with lived experience of leaving prostitution. For five years, Trish has been supporting women who sell or exchange sex to explore education and personal development opportunities.
In this interview, we talk about the importance of giving women space to consider and pursue their ambitions and dreams, and build a sense of themselves. Trish also discusses why offering women support with education should look beyond academic achievement and also include the development of life skills.
Can you start by telling us more about Ruhama?
Ruhama is a national organisation in Ireland supporting women who have been affected by prostitution, sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, which we see as violence against women. We are a frontline service but we also have policy development and have been involved in changes in legislation in Ireland to criminalise the purchase of sex. Out of that has emerged the need to address the economic effects this legislation is having on people selling sex. Regardless of the legislation in place, Ireland always needed to develop specific exiting services. Ruhama already offered exiting support through the education and employment services we have, although initially it wasn't something that was specifically named.
What education and development services do you offer?
The education service is about meeting our clients where they’re at. When they come to us, some women are very clear about what they want to do with their lives. Other women have escaped trafficking situations and technically do not see themselves as “exiting” the sex trade, but they do need similar supports to those who are. Some of them might have had education or qualifications in their country of origin, so they might have a very specific idea about what want to do, or maybe they want to go back to what they were doing and need some guidance around careers. We have people who have no English and might need to work on building their language skills. We have women who come with little or no education at all, from poverty stricken backgrounds where they never had access to education, and they have no idea what they want to do. We are also dealing with people presenting with addiction, homelessness, who may have chaotic lifestyles.
The assessments for education we do are about asking the women: what would you like? What do you envision for yourself? And sometimes it can be about helping somebody to see that they are good enough to access education if that's what they want. Some of our courses are in-house, like basic ICT, one-to-one English classes, study support, or maybe they want to learn how to drive, so it’s very much about what they want to do and what they feel is accessible for them right now. A lot of the women using the service access accredited education – we have quite an extensive career guidance service ran by a volunteer that has years of experience in the Irish education system. A lot of our work is helping people to apply for college, access funding, and supporting them with their studies.
Why was this education and development service set up?
For anybody who has had lack of opportunities in their life, education is something that would be seen as offering opportunity, you know? It’s about handing them over some power in their own life. Knowledge is power, and I think it’s a pretty standard assumption within society that education is something women want to pursue. Some women don't think that they deserve education. I know myself in my own experience, I didn't think I was able to study because I felt so destroyed from my experiences in the sex trade and I felt like my brain wasn’t working and I needed time and to be encouraged and supported on that journey. Only recently I finished a degree and I did very well. I'm living proof that you might come into a service and you may not recognise that education adds value to you, but it's only until you start dipping your foot in the water or find out how empowering education can be, how it opens doors for you and creates opportunities.
A lot of women who’ve been involved in the sex trade may not have been given other opportunities in life. So I ask: why wouldn't education be important? I don't understand how someone would not link education as being important if you are trying to help somebody, or maybe if someone comes to you and they want out of what they are doing. Being able to access education creates opportunities.
In addition to education, your service also focuses on supporting women’s personal development, can you tell us more about this aspect of the service?
For most of the women that I've come across that have been involved in the sex trade like myself, nobody ever asked me what I wanted. It’s really important to ask people what they want. And I know when people asked me, I didn't know what I wanted. I wanted you to tell me what I wanted, and I actually found it really frustrating that I had to figure that out myself. When you're coming from a world, especially women who've been trafficked or entrenched in brothels and controlled by pimps, controlled by partners where they don't have autonomy, a really important part of healing is getting to make those decisions in their lives. We have to cultivate a culture of asking people what they want even if they don't know what that is.
We have for example STEPS, a professional development course run by the Pacific Institute where you question your own thinking and internal beliefs; we also have another professional and personal development course called Shaping Your Future so women get space to think about their dreams, their hopes, their aspirations: what would they like to do? What is stopping them from doing it? What would they need to do to get to where they want to go? Women in our service are given spaces and opportunities to take part in courses where they explore their own inner worlds, their inner dreams. They get to look at how our own thoughts can sometimes become barriers that we create for ourselves. To build women’s self-esteem and self-worth and belief in themselves, asking what they want is a very important part of education.
In your experience, what are some of the things that have led women to consider exiting?
It’s hard to give a definitive answer to this question because there isn't one. Everybody is individual. There's a really important value in meeting people where they’re at. Because of my experience in the sex trade, I know a lot of women don't engage with services because they feel the services will want them to leave the sex trade. And it isn't that they haven't thought about leaving, it is just that it’s quite overwhelming to think about it. If I can tap into my own experience here because I feel like I can't talk for anybody else really, there’s a lot of women who dip in and out of it, they’re not out yet – they’re in and they’re out.
I haven't personally worked with somebody who’s come in and decided “guess what? I want to exit.” I don't have their experience to tap into. I just know that I've worked with women who have told me “I went out selling sex again because I can't afford my college tuition.” There isn't this big “oh, I exited the sex trade!” Even for myself, that was many years ago and up until recently I thought “maybe I should go back selling again because this isn't working out for me.” It's complex.
Exiting is a process. You can start working with someone and building on their self-esteem and their belief and maybe offering them courses or encouraging them to dip their feet into education, maybe getting a little part-time job, even if that won’t fully sustain them economically. What you can do is start lighting little flames of hope and everything eventually may start to come together.
When it comes to leaving the sex industry there can be this idea that there’s an exit door and once you cross it, that's it, you don't go back to selling sex. So it is helpful to hear that it is a process and there is a back and forth just like with any traumatic experience, and that this can be part of the dynamic with the ‘sex industry’.
What I would say from my own experience is that if you work with somebody and you meet them where they’re at, you probably have a better chance of them exiting. You will lose them if you put that expectation or condition of exiting on them, because you need to understand the complexity of it. It’s like addiction. We know that abstinence-based recovery is not the only solution and I would say that abstinence from involvement in the sex trade is very much about asking a woman: where are your needs if you’re homeless, for example? In my own situation, I had to live with a john because I had nowhere else to go. These are very practical things.
There is even the psychological thing of not knowing any better and feeling compelled to go back into it because change is so difficult. It's like the trauma bonding – the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. I know a lot of women out there who won't engage with services because they feel there's going to be an expectation on them to exit, and the fear of that is just too overwhelming for them, even though they’d prefer something better.
When talking about exiting, there is often a focus on employment, which is of course necessary for women to sustain themselves. But why do you think education and personal development are so important for women who are leaving the ‘sex industry’?
People need to feel humanised. Maybe women never had a space to discuss what they want, what they like or their dreams. As a human being we have so many elements to our psyche. When you’re selling sex you become so dissociated and disconnected from yourself. You almost become like a machine where you’re completely shut off, you don’t get space to think about things and that is a very important element of coming back to yourself. I didn’t see the harm it was causing me until I stopped and took stock and realised what happened to me wasn’t right, that it wasn’t my fault – just because I put myself out on the street, it doesn't mean I deserve to be raped.
Even educating people about the legislation is really important. I really feel that we should be educating the people who use our service on where we stand politically and legislatively and all the different kinds of legislation out there on a European level, for people that might like to speak. They may like to share their experience to inform policy or speak at a conference or something. That's a very important part of education as well because people that have been impacted by the sex trade can use their experiences to educate others. I know I’ve definitely been educated by clients that have used Ruhama services. Education is so much more nuanced than academic accreditation.
Why do mainstream services need to be aware of, and respond to, women who want to stop selling or exchanging sex?
The first thing that any practitioner needs to do is be comfortable to ask someone “have you been involved in selling sex?” That's your first port of call – ask the question. In Ireland we know that there's a huge discomfort with practitioners in mainstream services actually asking that question, and it's about our own internal biases. Many women would be afraid to disclose they’re selling sex. However, they would welcome the question because then they'd be able to open up about it. The first thing is for organisations to get comfortable with the fact that selling sex exists in society, let’s stop stigmatising it and start talking about it.
Addiction services ask women where they injected into their bodies – that's a more personal question. But yet we're uncomfortable with asking about selling sex. Homeless services could ask: have you ever had to sleep with someone to keep a roof over your head? Have you ever had to exchange drugs for sex? Have you ever had to sell sex to feed yourself? It's about asking that question and then going back and asking: have you ever thought about leaving? Would that be something you'd like to explore? It’s really important because, otherwise we're just deciding that if a woman is selling sex she’s doing great. But is she? Did you ask her?
It is vital to ask people if they want to exit. People have been entrenched in the sex trade because they had no other options. Or maybe, like myself, you got yourself into it and now you think it's your own fault and you're judging yourself. If someone hadn’t ask if I needed help to leave, I would never have left. So yeah, it's about asking: have you ever thought about leaving? And if you're happy selling sex, then good on you. The majority of people I've come across are not happy. If they could do something else, they would. But if we don't ask the question, then why would women ever even think about leaving? Every woman who sells sex deserves an opportunity to make a change.
In this interview, we talk about the importance of giving women space to consider and pursue their ambitions and dreams, and build a sense of themselves. Trish also discusses why offering women support with education should look beyond academic achievement and also include the development of life skills.
Can you start by telling us more about Ruhama?
Ruhama is a national organisation in Ireland supporting women who have been affected by prostitution, sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, which we see as violence against women. We are a frontline service but we also have policy development and have been involved in changes in legislation in Ireland to criminalise the purchase of sex. Out of that has emerged the need to address the economic effects this legislation is having on people selling sex. Regardless of the legislation in place, Ireland always needed to develop specific exiting services. Ruhama already offered exiting support through the education and employment services we have, although initially it wasn't something that was specifically named.
What education and development services do you offer?
The education service is about meeting our clients where they’re at. When they come to us, some women are very clear about what they want to do with their lives. Other women have escaped trafficking situations and technically do not see themselves as “exiting” the sex trade, but they do need similar supports to those who are. Some of them might have had education or qualifications in their country of origin, so they might have a very specific idea about what want to do, or maybe they want to go back to what they were doing and need some guidance around careers. We have people who have no English and might need to work on building their language skills. We have women who come with little or no education at all, from poverty stricken backgrounds where they never had access to education, and they have no idea what they want to do. We are also dealing with people presenting with addiction, homelessness, who may have chaotic lifestyles.
The assessments for education we do are about asking the women: what would you like? What do you envision for yourself? And sometimes it can be about helping somebody to see that they are good enough to access education if that's what they want. Some of our courses are in-house, like basic ICT, one-to-one English classes, study support, or maybe they want to learn how to drive, so it’s very much about what they want to do and what they feel is accessible for them right now. A lot of the women using the service access accredited education – we have quite an extensive career guidance service ran by a volunteer that has years of experience in the Irish education system. A lot of our work is helping people to apply for college, access funding, and supporting them with their studies.
Why was this education and development service set up?
For anybody who has had lack of opportunities in their life, education is something that would be seen as offering opportunity, you know? It’s about handing them over some power in their own life. Knowledge is power, and I think it’s a pretty standard assumption within society that education is something women want to pursue. Some women don't think that they deserve education. I know myself in my own experience, I didn't think I was able to study because I felt so destroyed from my experiences in the sex trade and I felt like my brain wasn’t working and I needed time and to be encouraged and supported on that journey. Only recently I finished a degree and I did very well. I'm living proof that you might come into a service and you may not recognise that education adds value to you, but it's only until you start dipping your foot in the water or find out how empowering education can be, how it opens doors for you and creates opportunities.
A lot of women who’ve been involved in the sex trade may not have been given other opportunities in life. So I ask: why wouldn't education be important? I don't understand how someone would not link education as being important if you are trying to help somebody, or maybe if someone comes to you and they want out of what they are doing. Being able to access education creates opportunities.
In addition to education, your service also focuses on supporting women’s personal development, can you tell us more about this aspect of the service?
For most of the women that I've come across that have been involved in the sex trade like myself, nobody ever asked me what I wanted. It’s really important to ask people what they want. And I know when people asked me, I didn't know what I wanted. I wanted you to tell me what I wanted, and I actually found it really frustrating that I had to figure that out myself. When you're coming from a world, especially women who've been trafficked or entrenched in brothels and controlled by pimps, controlled by partners where they don't have autonomy, a really important part of healing is getting to make those decisions in their lives. We have to cultivate a culture of asking people what they want even if they don't know what that is.
We have for example STEPS, a professional development course run by the Pacific Institute where you question your own thinking and internal beliefs; we also have another professional and personal development course called Shaping Your Future so women get space to think about their dreams, their hopes, their aspirations: what would they like to do? What is stopping them from doing it? What would they need to do to get to where they want to go? Women in our service are given spaces and opportunities to take part in courses where they explore their own inner worlds, their inner dreams. They get to look at how our own thoughts can sometimes become barriers that we create for ourselves. To build women’s self-esteem and self-worth and belief in themselves, asking what they want is a very important part of education.
In your experience, what are some of the things that have led women to consider exiting?
It’s hard to give a definitive answer to this question because there isn't one. Everybody is individual. There's a really important value in meeting people where they’re at. Because of my experience in the sex trade, I know a lot of women don't engage with services because they feel the services will want them to leave the sex trade. And it isn't that they haven't thought about leaving, it is just that it’s quite overwhelming to think about it. If I can tap into my own experience here because I feel like I can't talk for anybody else really, there’s a lot of women who dip in and out of it, they’re not out yet – they’re in and they’re out.
I haven't personally worked with somebody who’s come in and decided “guess what? I want to exit.” I don't have their experience to tap into. I just know that I've worked with women who have told me “I went out selling sex again because I can't afford my college tuition.” There isn't this big “oh, I exited the sex trade!” Even for myself, that was many years ago and up until recently I thought “maybe I should go back selling again because this isn't working out for me.” It's complex.
Exiting is a process. You can start working with someone and building on their self-esteem and their belief and maybe offering them courses or encouraging them to dip their feet into education, maybe getting a little part-time job, even if that won’t fully sustain them economically. What you can do is start lighting little flames of hope and everything eventually may start to come together.
When it comes to leaving the sex industry there can be this idea that there’s an exit door and once you cross it, that's it, you don't go back to selling sex. So it is helpful to hear that it is a process and there is a back and forth just like with any traumatic experience, and that this can be part of the dynamic with the ‘sex industry’.
What I would say from my own experience is that if you work with somebody and you meet them where they’re at, you probably have a better chance of them exiting. You will lose them if you put that expectation or condition of exiting on them, because you need to understand the complexity of it. It’s like addiction. We know that abstinence-based recovery is not the only solution and I would say that abstinence from involvement in the sex trade is very much about asking a woman: where are your needs if you’re homeless, for example? In my own situation, I had to live with a john because I had nowhere else to go. These are very practical things.
There is even the psychological thing of not knowing any better and feeling compelled to go back into it because change is so difficult. It's like the trauma bonding – the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. I know a lot of women out there who won't engage with services because they feel there's going to be an expectation on them to exit, and the fear of that is just too overwhelming for them, even though they’d prefer something better.
When talking about exiting, there is often a focus on employment, which is of course necessary for women to sustain themselves. But why do you think education and personal development are so important for women who are leaving the ‘sex industry’?
People need to feel humanised. Maybe women never had a space to discuss what they want, what they like or their dreams. As a human being we have so many elements to our psyche. When you’re selling sex you become so dissociated and disconnected from yourself. You almost become like a machine where you’re completely shut off, you don’t get space to think about things and that is a very important element of coming back to yourself. I didn’t see the harm it was causing me until I stopped and took stock and realised what happened to me wasn’t right, that it wasn’t my fault – just because I put myself out on the street, it doesn't mean I deserve to be raped.
Even educating people about the legislation is really important. I really feel that we should be educating the people who use our service on where we stand politically and legislatively and all the different kinds of legislation out there on a European level, for people that might like to speak. They may like to share their experience to inform policy or speak at a conference or something. That's a very important part of education as well because people that have been impacted by the sex trade can use their experiences to educate others. I know I’ve definitely been educated by clients that have used Ruhama services. Education is so much more nuanced than academic accreditation.
Why do mainstream services need to be aware of, and respond to, women who want to stop selling or exchanging sex?
The first thing that any practitioner needs to do is be comfortable to ask someone “have you been involved in selling sex?” That's your first port of call – ask the question. In Ireland we know that there's a huge discomfort with practitioners in mainstream services actually asking that question, and it's about our own internal biases. Many women would be afraid to disclose they’re selling sex. However, they would welcome the question because then they'd be able to open up about it. The first thing is for organisations to get comfortable with the fact that selling sex exists in society, let’s stop stigmatising it and start talking about it.
Addiction services ask women where they injected into their bodies – that's a more personal question. But yet we're uncomfortable with asking about selling sex. Homeless services could ask: have you ever had to sleep with someone to keep a roof over your head? Have you ever had to exchange drugs for sex? Have you ever had to sell sex to feed yourself? It's about asking that question and then going back and asking: have you ever thought about leaving? Would that be something you'd like to explore? It’s really important because, otherwise we're just deciding that if a woman is selling sex she’s doing great. But is she? Did you ask her?
It is vital to ask people if they want to exit. People have been entrenched in the sex trade because they had no other options. Or maybe, like myself, you got yourself into it and now you think it's your own fault and you're judging yourself. If someone hadn’t ask if I needed help to leave, I would never have left. So yeah, it's about asking: have you ever thought about leaving? And if you're happy selling sex, then good on you. The majority of people I've come across are not happy. If they could do something else, they would. But if we don't ask the question, then why would women ever even think about leaving? Every woman who sells sex deserves an opportunity to make a change.